On September 15, 2016 I received a Notice of Neighborhood Meeting for a Minor General Plan Amendment and Rezoning of a property located in the Yucca district from the law office of David Cisiewski representing Los Olivos Office Partners, LLC., a Delaware corporation. This is slightly curious. Los Olivos Office Partners is a Delaware corporation that was registered with the Arizona Corporation Commission by yet another law firm who is their agent in Arizona. So who are the principals of Los Olivos? Local people? People out-of-state? A foreign firm?
They are proposing a subdivision called “Orangewood Terrace.” The property’s location is south of Orangewood Avenue and just east of the West Glenn residential subdivision and just west of 79th Lane. Los Olivos is seeking: 1. a Minor General Plan Amendment to change the General Plan designation from Low Density Residential (LDR, 1-2.5 homes to the acre) to Medium Density Residential (MDR, 2.5 to 3.5 homes to the acre); 2. to rezone the property from R1-10 (10,000 square foot lots) to R1-8 (8,000 square foot lots); and 3. a Preliminary Plat for 55 single family homes.
What’s not to like? 8,000 square foot lots…great. Not so fast. In 2008 the city deliberately planned this property for 10,000 square foot lots with a definite purpose in mind. The property was to act as a buffer between West Glen Estates (a subdivision of 8,000 square foot lots, R1-8) located at the southeast corner of 83rd Avenue and Orangewood Avenue and 79th Lane on the south side of Orangewood Avenue which has about 30 large lot (17,000 square foot lot, SR-17) homes. All of the properties on the north side of Orangewood Avenue directly across from this proposed subdivision are SR-17 residences.
The property in question should remain as a 10,000 SF lot subdivision in order to preserve and to maintain the property values of the residents of West Glen Estates and the residents of 79th Lane. The only conceivable reason to reduce the size of the lots to 8,000 SF is to maximize the profit to be derived by Los Olivos Office Partners. That is not the city’s mission or purpose. Its purpose is to protect the interests of its residents, not developers.
I encourage the residents on the north side of Orangewood Avenue as well as the residents of West Glen Estates and 79th Lane to attend the Neighborhood Meeting:
October 3, 2016
6:00 PM
Hampton Inn & Suite Glendale-Westgate
6630 N. 95th Avenue
Glendale, AZ 85305
Now, chickens…
The next scheduled city meetings are: November 1, 2016 – Second City Council Workshop on the proposed Zoning Text Amendment and November 22, 2016 – City Council Public Hearing on the proposed Zoning Text Amendment.
The Zoning Text Amendment being considered would allow the keeping of contained hen chickens (only) in single family-zoned areas with a zoning district of A-1, RR-90, RR-45, SR-30, SR-17, SR-12, R1-10, R1-8, R1-6 and R1-4. However, per city code chickens are already allowed in these residential zoning districts: A-1, RR-90 (90,000 SF lots), RR-45 (45,000 SF lots), SR-30 (30,000 SF lots), SR-17 (17,000 SF lots) and SR-12 (12,000 SF lots). The text amendment would allow these 4 additional residential districts to have chickens: R1-10 (10,000 SF lots), R1-8 (8,000 SF lots), R1-6 (6,000 SF lots) and R1-4 (4,000 SF lots).
Chicken proponents have cited that other Valley cities allow them. Yes, they do but nearly all cities have restrictions. Let’s look at Phoenix, the big dog in the Valley. In Chapter 8-7 it states, “(a) Except as otherwise provided in this article, it is hereby declared to be a nuisance and it shall be unlawful for any person to keep rodents or poultry within the City. No poultry or rodents shall be kept in an enclosure within eighty feet of any residence within the City. Poultry may be kept within eighty feet of a residence if written permission consenting to the keeping of poultry less than eighty feet from a residence is first obtained from each lawful occupant and each lawful owner of such residence. Poultry shall not be kept in the front yard area of any lot or parcel within the City. Poultry and rodents shall be kept in an enclosure so constructed as to prevent such poultry and rodents from wandering upon property belonging to others.
(b) No more than twenty head of poultry nor more than twenty-five head of rodents nor more than twenty-five head comprising a combination of rodents and poultry shall be kept upon the first one-half acre or less. An additional one-half acre shall be required for each additional twenty head of poultry or for each additional twenty-five head of rodents or for each additional twenty-five head comprising a combination of poultry and rodents. For areas larger than two and one-half acres the number of poultry or rodents shall not be limited.” Their code goes on to say in Section 8-10, “(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is hereby declared to be a nuisance and it shall be unlawful for any person to keep any animal, as defined in section 8-1 of this chapter, within the City on any lot or parcel of land consisting of less than ten thousand square feet in area.
(b) Poultry may be kept on a lot or parcel of land within the City consisting of an area less than ten thousand square feet if written permission consenting to the keeping of poultry on such lot or parcel is first obtained from all of the lawful occupants and the lawful owners of adjoining lots or parcels of land, as defined in section 8-1, which are located in the immediate vicinity of the property whereon the poultry is kept. In summary, the restrictions are that a resident may have up to 25 chickens, 80 feet away from any residence and if the homeowner’s lot is less than 10,000 SF permission must be obtained from all adjacent property owners.
Let’s look at Mesa. In Mesa, a resident can have “10 chickens on the first one-half acre or less provided any enclosure is at least 40 feet from any neighboring residence, any coop is at least 75 feet from any other residence.” Tempe allows, “5 hens and if the enclosure or coop is 200 sq ft or less AND 8′ or less tall, it must meet building code separation requirements (safety issues) and cannot be in the front yard setback; if either more than 200 sq ft OR 8′ height, it must meet all setbacks for the district.” Similar to Tempe, Gilbert will allow up to 5 chickens on the smallest lots size of 6,000 SF. Chandler and Scottsdale do not allow chickens on small, residential lots.
Some people would have you believe that Valley cities allow chickens carte blanche. That is not the case. I would urge all councilmembers to do their homework and to study exactly what other cities allow and do not allow. It is a no-brainer to realize that allowing chickens, if that is the majority position, must occur with restrictions. Let’s see what kind of restrictions city staff comes up on November 1, 2016 when it makes another presentation before city council. Will they have done their homework?
This remains a divisive issue. I am posting one of my informal polls to the left of this column to give my readers a chance to weigh in on the issue. Blog readers on both sides of this issue have offered reasoned comments. I urge you to take a moment to read them as you make up your mind on this issue.
© Joyce Clark, 2016
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Ms. Clark:
Thank you for sharing the neighborhood meeting information. This neighborhood meeting is an informal meeting where information is shared with concerned citizens of Glendale? Is public input allowed? Is information available prior to the meeting? From what department/agency?
Educate me a little here. The process would be to conduct an informal meeting, test the community’s involvement, forward this information to the Planning Commission for review, they make a recommendation and forward this to Council for final approval. Did I miss any step?
You are absolutely correct when you indicate the developer desires to maximize their investment by placing the number of properties in their development. They purchased the property knowing the zoning requirements and the City has developed a General plan. The process will move forward, however now is the rime for the citizens to step forward and voice their concerns.
Appreciate the fact you have done some investigation into this chicken issue. For whatever reason the proposed zoning change missed including RI-7 properties. 5,729 according to the numbers provided by the Planning Department. Human error, oversight? As this issue moves forward, let’s make sure we have all the facts. Than you.
Jack Martino
Jack, I believe the next meeting is November 1, 2016 at a city council workshop meeting. Public comment is not permitted at city council workshop meetings as they are informational in nature and do not allow for formal votes on issues. The public is welcome to attend a workshop meeting, now held in council chambers at city hall.
Information regarding the workshop on chickens will be available online at the city’s website the Friday before November 1st. Go to city clerk, click on council meetings and agendas, then click on council meetings from Oct to present. A list of dates will appear. Click on Nov. 1 workshop meeting to pull up meeting details/agenda.
Good catch on R1-7…I’m not sure it is a zoning district according to city code. Will check.
Joyce:
Please don’t laugh or think me stupid, but I have a question:
Rodents?
What kind of “rodents” do homeowners keep, and for what purpose?
I have an opinion of people keeping chickens, but I’ll keep it to myself, lest some chicken owners band together and decide to egg my house! 🙂
Regards~
nas
I’m not an expert on rodents, but how about pet mice, hamsters, guinea pigs, etc.? Purpose would be as for any other pet, enjoyment, connection, pleasure.
Joyce,
At first, the idea of chicken’s in a residential area seems crazy. Let’s tell the truth, the picture it paints is one of poverty and nobody wants that as their reality. The question is…. Is that the reality. I don’t think so. This is 2016 and people today have a conscience of healthier living. Turn on the news and we will see the wake of our past destruction regarding the neglect of our bodies and the earth.
In today world people want to live healthier. We want to give back to the planet and our children. Having chickens is just another step in the right direction to do this. It is nothing more then having a garden. These people are responsible citizens who should have the right to live a healthier life style.
I welcome chickens and I wish I had the time and commitment to health to harvest my own eggs.
I don’t consider myself a “germophobe”, but I do think about the health issues concerning keeping rodents and chickens in one’s yard.
If people are seriously concerned with living a healthier lifestyle, I wonder if they take into consideration the health-related “side effects” of raising chickens and harvesting their own eggs.
This is an interesting article published by the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/features/salmonellapoultry/
I think I’ll stick to buying my chicken and eggs at the grocery store – and take my chances that way.
Regarding my question about “rodents”:
Joyce answered my previous question by writing:
“I’m not an expert on rodents, but how about pet mice, hamsters, guinea pigs, etc.? Purpose would be as for any other pet, enjoyment, connection, pleasure.”
I’m not an expert either, but aren’t those furry little creatures usually kept as indoor pets – and not in outdoor pens or cages?
In our Arizona climate they wouldn’t live long outside, would they?
I believe your question was what kind of rodents do homeowners keep as pets. I didn’t see any reference to inside or outside a premises. Rabbits are often kept outside. I imagine most animals could survive outside if shaded properly, maybe misters and plenty of clean, fresh water.
Sorry for the confusion here, Joyce, but I thought the subject of “zoning” regarding the keeping of chickens and rodents was referring solely to outside, in the homeowner’s yard – not indoors…
Having lived in Arizona for 23 years I can’t imagine keeping any pet, whether it be dog, cat, hamster, rabbit, or other small animal outdoors; not even in the shade with a mister system and plenty of clean water. That just borders on the inhumane in my opinion.
I don’t even want to be outside, in the shade, in 100+ degree heat for any length of time – and I’m a whole lot bigger and hardier than those little guys!
Like I said, sorry if our exchange has become a bit confused.
nas
Being at the neighborhood meeting on the chicken topic, I can assure you that the picture painted by the naysayers isn’t chicken keeping today. Especially with the generations that are wanting them; no longer are they the ramshackle coop in the backyard with a ton of chickens, with the image that presents. Nowadays, folks are spending a TON of money and time on making sure their chickens are happy, healthy and LAY, BABY! Sick chickens or those living in poor conditions don’t lay eggs, aren’t fun/happy birds and that’s just sad. It takes money, time and effort – and just about anyone doing their homework on this topic knows that up front. Those “free” eggs from your own hen are NOT free and egg prices at Fry’s are way lower most of the time! There are a ton of resources out there nowadays about the joys (and responsibilities) of keeping chickens. It can be a lot of work, but very rewarding…and you (and your kids) know where your food came from!
Not to harp on this, but “all the cool kids are doing it.” Glendale is one of the last holdouts in the Phoenix area, and even the big boys like New York, Seattle and Boston allow them. I’m okay with restrictions as long as they are reasonably thought out and not arbitrary. For instance, X many chickens per Y SF of lot size (not just “you get 4 and only 4 cuz it sounded good on paper”). Keep them fenced in. No roosters. Limit construction and coop location ONLY if it makes sense. Really, if the coop is only 4’x6′, with 6 chickens, does it matter if it’s close to the fence line if there’s no noise or odor? A six foot tall coop is as tall as most block fences in our area, so you’re not really going to see it next door anyway. Yeah, I don’t want someone building a BARN in their backyard against my fence…but there are already rules with building structures on your lot and how close they can be to the fence.
And of course, code enforcement would have final say with regard to any noise or odor complaints. Properly kept chickens are NOT smelly…any more than keeping dogs in your backyard are smelly. Have four dogs and don’t clean up the poo for months? Yeah, you may get smelly. Ditto for any other outside animal. Will there be deadbeat chicken owners? Unfortunately, probably so…people who got into it and either something happened and they could no longer keep it up or they didn’t do their research on the time commitment. And you’ll have people with 50 parrots in the backyard in aviaries or dogs that bark into the wee hours (only roosters make noise after dark, by the way…hens are smart enough to be safely asleep at dusk and don’t get up until daylight). People are fallible; code enforcement “has the power” and can address these types of things. My only hope is that when complaints are registered they are evaluated based on merit, and not just because a cranky neighbor wants to complain about a chicken clucking for a few minutes laying her egg! My dog barked loudly off and on for 10 minutes this morning as someone’s cat tortured her from the top of our fence…let’s just be reasonable.
Finally, I do hope all involved on the City’s side do their own homework. I sent off letters to the various parties in office (and coming in) about this topic with a handful of links. City folks, do your OWN homework and make your decision based on facts. Call someone in the code department at the other cities and ask how it’s working out. Any problems? Concerns? Wish you’d done it differently? Reach out to the local chicken folk, too, and ask THEM what they think reasonable limitations are and WHY. From what someone told me who went to the P&Z workshop, no one had any idea what to make FOR rules!
Hey, Joyce…rumor had it there was a Zoning meeting on this topic early October where P&Z was going to make their recommendation. Is that still happening? Love to get the details!
P.S. Check out this link to Glendale’s post on the original meeting for chickens. https://www.facebook.com/GlendaleAZ/posts/10154364501647296
I think only one person posted negatives on this issue, and all the other comments were in support. Unfortunately, this one person many times, posting a bunch of misinformation (several people asked her for her sources), but lots of chicken people chimed in and said “Hey, hold on…that’s not true!” There are also some fun links such as to a care center in Australia that is adding chicken keeping to all their care homes after a trial run and a gentleman who is using this hobby to help with mental illness. Oh, and check out this link, too: http://www.beyondseattle.com/2012/08/the-6-silliest-arguments-against-backyard-chickens/
Good reading, all!
I know there was a P&Z meeting but from what I understand the commissioners had many questions for which staff had no answer. I believe P&Z may have another meeting on the issue (not certain, so don’t take this to the bank) at which time staff is to provide answers to their many questions.
Ok, so Chickens produce less waste than Dogs, They produce food, and they eat bugs. So help me understand why we would want to stop people from having Chickens?
Folks are concerned they are noisy and smelly, which if you take care of them based on common sense, they are not. Noise is very limited and 99% of the time they are basically quiet (they cluck for a few minutes when they lay an egg once every day or two). Check out the link in my post above to Glendale’s FB page for the lady who posted a ton of stuff against them. As all the people responded below her, basically none of her concerns are true.
According to Jeanette Socaciu, my life is a lie. I have a dedicated group of BKYD chicken farmers who follow every comment I post, then refute them. When the chicken ordinance is passed the neighbors next to BKYD chicken farmers will say, “oh yes, this is what she was talking about…”